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Has Naruto truly surpassed his mentors ?

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Has Naruto truly surpassed his mentors ?

Post by Hiro Onoyuga on Sun May 09, 2010 12:25 am

Intro:
Helloo-ooo!

First of all, to begin with, this isn't a fan thread in favor of Naruto, Kakashi, Jiraiya or Minato. This is a thread, where we will discuss Naruto having surpassed his mentors in Kakashi, Jiraiya and Minato, the actual manga statements of that happening, where we will see for ourselves how literally we should take the meaning of Naruto having surpassed his mentors, when having been said to have done so.

Naruto and Kakashi Hatake:
It all started with when Naruto completed the Rasengan, by adding Fuuton Chakra to it, and transforming it into the Fuuton: Rasenshuriken, and used it to take Kakuzu down. Kakashi was truly amazed and left speechless by the power of the technique, pondering in his mind if or if not Naruto had surpassed him.

When Kakashi was speaking with Naruto later on, regarding the jutsu and its danger to Naruto, he stated that Naruto had become much stronger, to the point they could be considered equals or that the gutsy ninja would be even the stronger of the two.

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/343/11/

See here? Kakashi clearly stated that Naruto had at the most surpassed him and at the very least equalled him - in terms of strength.

Yet people, for some reason or other - probably because they think Naruto wasn't strong enough - deny this claim, saying it was either foolish hype or BS, or that Kakashi was referring to his jutsu mastery or Wll of Fire.

However, I think this is just a pathetic excuse.

First of all, Kakashi said Naruto has become strong, enough to stand side-by-side with him, or even stronger. Nothing about jutsu mastery. Just strength. If he was talking about Will of Fire, that's actually false as not until the fight with Pain did Naruto show a Will of Fire completely surpassing those who came before him, by mastering Sennin Modo within a week, defeating Pain and finding a solution to holding Sasuke back from destroying Konoha while letting him live whereas Kakashi himself thought that killing him was the only way to stop him.

And again, all Kakashi was talking about was simply 'strength'. In any shonen manga, let it be DBZ, Bleach or Naruto, when the word strength is used alone, expect it to refer to the actual power of someone in combat, not his willpower alone or other things. Shonen manga have very clear-cut and simple meanings for everything. Why try and complicate the meaning of the word, when there is nothing to be complicated?

When Roshi said that Goku surpassed him, he meant it and that was it. Naruto is a manga more about ideologies and all that than Dragon Ball, but the fact remains, both are clear-cut shonen fighter manga and both Roshi and Kakashi were talking about things related to strength in combat.

Naruto surpassed Kakashi.

When they say 'surpassed', they mean 'surpassed' in terms of strength. When they mean 'stronger', they mean 'stronger' in terms of power. This isn't some kind of literature, it's your average shonen fighting manga and so the meaning of those words would be as it should be. People should stop twisting their BS as they see fit to interpret this.

Of course, Kakashi's gotten much stronger since when he faced Kakuzu. He didn't seem to have Raiton Kage Bunshin, Raiton Hound or such a powerful and instanteous Kamui then. But Naruto's also gotten stronger, the Sage Training raised his abilities in Base as well.

Naruto, Jiraiya and Minato Namikaze:
As for Jiraiya and Minato, here the fact that Naruto has surpassed them becomes absolutely irrefutable given that Naruto has actually proved that he has done so. And to help out...

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/430/20/

Uh, Fukasaku clearly knows what he would be talking about. Maybe he didn't know all there was to Minato, but even then, he is too shrouded in hype to make a proper judgment on, so it's fair to assume he might be weaker than Naruto - although not by much.

People often use the excuse that Naruto needed Minato to save him, as proof Minato was stronger than he was. This is stupid - Naruto saved Tsunade from Kabuto in Part I, was Naruto even close to her then?

Jiraiya, on the other hand - this is painfully obvious. Fukasaku knew everything there was to Jiraiya. Whereas Minato was more of a legend and a mystery, the Sannin was someone whose abilities, strengths and weaknesses were completely known to the Elder Sage, who knew him since he was a little tadpole.

People will try to refute this as hype, but just how do they figure this is hype? I suppose since all we know about Hanzo is hype and since he was all just hype, he was really only Hidan-level, eh? Yeah, the Sannin he faced were near dead already and poisoned, and Hanzo didn't even fight them, he just let them live. People should really stop making up their own assumptions and ignoring the manga's words.

The other explanation is surpassing Jiraiya in Sennin Modo and Minato in Rasengan. But then, why did Fukasaku simply not say so? When he said Naruto surpassed the two, all he meant was that Naruto ascended above the two in terms of power.

Again, this is just a shonen manga, and he had no idea Naruto could use the Fuuton: Rasengan let alone FRS. All he did was make Rasengan bigger, which was not Minato's original concept with the technique.

And if he meant surpassing in Will of Fire, why didn't he just say so? Surpassing in this manga, and all shonen, when taken alone, usually refers to being more skilled or proficient, or simply more powerful. This isn't a philosophical manga or literature that surpass magically has so many meanings.

Oh, feats don't support it. Feats don't support a lot of things. People should not give just feats alone or hype alone too much credibility. Sarutobi didn't seem stronger than the likes of Deidara, Kakuzu and Sasori.

Yet we know his Prime self was indeed stronger than many of the Akatsuki members and his old self likely was too although it didn't look that way. Nagato didn't show feats of using 5 Elemental Ninjutsu, boo hoo. Sasori can't use 298 Puppets, boo hoo, yet we know he could. Yet we know he could. Kakashi didn't show feats of showing 1000 Jutsu, boo hoo, Orochimaru didn't, Sarutobi didn't, boo hoo. Yet we all know they could.

But, unfortunately, in the end, manga's word > all.

And yet, most people would agree with me that SM Naruto has surpassed HM Jiraiya in terms of strength. Jiraiya has better jutsu versatility and experience. But when have versatility and experience ever played that big a role? Itachi wasn't as versatile as Hebi Sasuke, yet he would have been winning if not holding back and ill. Orochimaru has not enough experience as Sarutobi, yet he was capable of destroying him easily in his old age, had he not intended to toy with him and mess with his emotions instead.

Plus, I don't see the point of keeping Naruto below his proteges all the time. That was Part I. In Part II, Sasuke's growing by leaps and bounds, and the enemies are getting stronger, and the challenges tougher, so why shouldn't Naruto too, be ascending faster and faster and past his proteges?

Conclusion:
Well, that's it for my thread. I hope you liked reading it. Feel free to argue, agree or disagree, but express your opinions politely.

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Re: Has Naruto truly surpassed his mentors ?

Post by Ace Akau on Mon May 24, 2010 4:50 am

Yes Naruto has ;D

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Re: Has Naruto truly surpassed his mentors ?

Post by Uchiha on Mon May 24, 2010 8:45 am

I think it's possible, if not at this moment, Naruto has the potential to do so. He's shown it time and time again throghout the Anime/Manga.
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